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PostPosted: 6. Apr 2011, 18:12
by SimonX
I don't know about everyone else, but I think there should be a max number of summons a player can have.

Not only does it give me crazy lag when I try to teleport to an area where there is a summoner with all his minions it give insane ability to AFK gain experience. I was testing this out and even at lvl 12 returned fiend they can wipe out anything except bosses easily.

Since my short time back I have already noticed 3 players AFK leveling by using massive summons.

To be honest I think 4 or 5 maximum summons would be much more fair and help the game lag a little less.

Maybe other people have ideas on this...But from my point of view they are by far the most overpowered class.

Re: Summoner

PostPosted: 6. Apr 2011, 18:21
by Cetra
lol i was just speaking with Duriel on this subject and we were discussing ideas on how to better the summoner without making the class too overpowered.

Re: Summoner

PostPosted: 6. Apr 2011, 18:43
by Reckoning
Honestly, no matter what you do there is always going to be some OP class in the game. What I think needs to happen is this.

- Summons need to disappear after 45-60 seconds (as to stop afk farming etc).

As for there being too many summons and you lagging, I never had this problem, however I suppose it wouldn't hurt to lower the amount of summons that they can do maybe add a max amount of summons. In almost every game summoners have been really strong, and the problem has always been with the pets being OP. So perhaps give the pets a little nerf or something similar.

Re: Summoner

PostPosted: 6. Apr 2011, 19:04
by SeyzTLS
thats all crap^^

summons disappear after some secondswould make the whole class senseless. the respawning takes too much energy and why you should use minionhealth then ? furthermore skills like revive loosing there worth.

max of 4-5mobs..make it senseless, too.
than you can use maybe 1 minionskill full.

the summoner itself isnt the problem for you.
he is only good in pve... in pvp atm really weak.

furthermore the most pets make low dmg.
only the returnedfriend and maybe the werewolf make dmg that its usefull.

your problem is the afk-farming.

so firstly:

should it be changed?

1. the most items disapper now after some nearly no drops for an afk-farmer.
2. only a few mobs come in the range of such a afk-summoner.
they kill maybe 1 or 2 per minute (depending on the area where you stand)
3. its really dangerous: other players can pull greater crowds of mobs and kill the summoner easily.
4. the summoners must stand in low-lvl-areas mostly, coz in higher maps the enemys kill in some time your minions or the summoner.
5. if the game crash since your afk-time you loose everything what is on the ground.

I tested it with my summoner and all in all you make maybe with 10h afk-lvling maybe 1h normal play.

and secondly:

how you prevent afk-farming?

the only thing that you can do against afk-lvling, if marlon wants to change it, is a timer that log you automaticly out after 15-30mins afk-beeing. ( key was pressed in this time)

not nerfing the summoner.

Re: Summoner

PostPosted: 6. Apr 2011, 21:36
by SimonX
I am talking about balancing not nerfing.

Lots of summons make the game lag...lets face it that is true. It is the equivalent of 10+ extra players in the area. Who cares if they cant use a full amount of each summon??? That would make you have to balance out how you wanted to summon them.

Farming is somewhat of an issue and you say items disappear now...well only the cruddy ones not the good ones you would pick up anyway. And so what if they can only farm exp and stuff on lvl 20's it is still lowly in my opinion.

All you have to do for a good leveling area is go to a small corridor place and stand there and they have to respawn near you.

Also your idea to fix the problem can easily be overcome by a macro key stroke program.

Having a max spawn time and a max count will make summoners have to think about how they want to use their abilities.

I would agree a max spawn time would be a good idea...more time for weaker summons and shorter time for more powerful summons and have a cap at 5 seems reasonable.

Summoners camping right now are destroying the market when it comes to items.

Re: Summoner

PostPosted: 6. Apr 2011, 22:29
by Reckoning
Well actually to be honest... Nerfing = Balancing If you nerf a skill it would be to balance it...Get what I'm saying?

Like Simon said it is a BIG problem, you could sit there all night getting tons of exp and items (mostly exp) while you are sleeping etc. While other players have to earn it fairly. It's basically the same thing as a macro program in the sense that you are using it while you're afk. I don't think players should even be allowed to afk farm, but somehow they don't get in trouble for it. I would think that it would be a banable offense, as it does ruin the game. And now since there is the auto-save, you don't really lose any exp if you crash and what not. It also depends where you are and how you are set-up. I'm sure if you had the right items and skills you could afk farm for hours and get just as much exp as if you were actually playing.

As for it being "senseless" to make your summons disappear after a duration (around 1 minute), why not just make summons cost less energy, thus solving both the afk farming problem and the energy problem. This would balance summons out completely. As for summons not doing that much damage...A summoner can do about 45k hp in 20-45 seconds with all of his summons out. I don't think that's too bad. I'm not sure exactly if their damage should be nerfed as it's not really anything to write home about. However, the afk farming will be a bigger problem as we get more people. So I believe it should be fixed now, before we have a bigger problem with it.

Re: Summoner

PostPosted: 6. Apr 2011, 22:55
by SeyzTLS
making disappear after some seconds /minutes make the stat "Minion health" totaly senseless.
also a limitation make summoners senseless who uses more than 1-2 minionskills.

of course afk-farming is a difficult theme.
an autologout would be a good thing to prevent it.

of course there are possibilties to prevent an autologout.
but if you really want you can also login with different chars at the same time. or writing a bot that farm automatic in one area.

but kill the whole summonerclass is that what you want? o.o

i also dont think so that afk-lvling kills the market, coz there spawn not so much mobs in your range. also the most items disapear.
and you dont make much exp.

i said.. i tested it. its more a waste of energy to make that. :lol:

and to the argument of reckoning.
45k hp in 20-45 seconds

summoners can only deal in PvE high dps.
and that only with very high minionstuff and 8returnedfriends + werewolf + other summons.

furthermore a lot of classes can deal 1k dps or much more...not only summoner...

in PvP the dmg is really low, coz the best summoner-skills are
revive and returnedfriend.

btw.: a limitation wouldnt solve the afk-lvling. it would take only more build-possibilities out of the game.
maybe some skills should be that you cant have so much returnedfriends and so on.

but if afk-farming really ruins the game we need another solution for it.
not nerfing mobs.

in theorie a char with high dmg reflect-eq + health-regeneration +some def (maybe +regrowth) can also be a good afk-farmer.

Re: Summoner

PostPosted: 6. Apr 2011, 23:12
by Reckoning
This is a problem...I honestly don't like the idea of an auto log out...It can be easily avoided and it's annoying for people who are actually playing. And it's a complete and total pain if you are using full screen mode to have to log back in...

I would rather have something simple, like moderators or something in game who watch out for people doing things they shouldn't and warn them etc. However marlon hasn't really said much about it being against the rules and what not so I'm not sure if that's even possible. All in all a simple solution like player moderators or people who inform marlon about misdeeds going on in-game and give players a warning would be a better solution.

Re: Summoner

PostPosted: 7. Apr 2011, 03:38
by pan song
nothing need to be change with summoners.. they are strong cause of minions, just like if ur POISON pure, poison make u strong and that why u train them, nothing should be change. i said this because i am summoners, without my minion im useless. :oops:

Re: Summoner

PostPosted: 8. Apr 2011, 02:33
by VXStorm
Marlon already suggested disabling EXP gains after non activity. This is sufficient. A macro program could override this, but that is a separate issue.

If the pets where given additional power / less summons that might be easier on lag, but the class is not that overpowering. Part of the fun of this class is summoning as many things as possible. This includes deliberate builds that can do so.

The pets are to slow to make superior PVE. There are areas where it's just easier to 1 shot all mobs and forget about the pets. You can survive through nearly anything, but so can a strong Life Leach Class.

BTW: The Werewolf does not appear to ever gain dmg by leveling the skill.