Characters recommended balance package

Do you think a certain skill is too strong/weak, a monster should be more balanced or a specific items should drop more often?
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Characters recommended balance package

Postby unknown54 » 13. Aug 2011, 10:32

Hi Marlon, players,

i add new balance suggestions for popular elementalist. I know this changes (if will be realeased it will be very unpopular) nevertheless i hope balancing and make fair game for all chars is main result which all of players want to reach. I wrote about some balance topics for other characters in past.


After reach lvl 30 i made my own graph (for each char - known tactic), which includes:
  • EXPing time (in events)
  • Incoming (events + bosses + max luck for easy kill)
  • Tanking - toughness in fight (1vWorldBoss)
  • Damaging - damage do to (eg. new) boss in 1 min
  • PvP, arenas
  • Game difficulty (lvl 1-30)


I think chars are balance +- except 3 most played tactics - summoner, ice dual elementalist, dual stunner

ISHAMAN

a Increase starting hp and damage of minions, but decrease their hp and damage growing each level.

b Thorns reduction (-20% or on PvP reduction by 40-50 %).

c Cooldown for Werewolf (90 sec).

d Decrease health of red evils (-25%).

e Decrease Cooldown for Revive (lvl 20 6.2 ---> 4.0s).



IIRAMPAGE & stunning

a First important change is fix almost perma stun for dual-wield rampager. (Fast attack speed - like 10att per sec with stuns
always detroy gameplay in any game). There are few solutions:

  1. Stun chance (max 20-25%, 1-1.5s stun, cooldown for next stun like 2.5-3s or just simplify make cooldown for time you are stunned you cant be stunned again - 2s stunned, next 2s cant be stunned)
  2. Attack speed (in any game attack speed is much slower than here - i think max attack speed - with best items, skills should be somewhere about 2 attacks / 1s).
  3. Skill reduction (dualwield balance like chance to miss)

b Victourious Strike was very well fix in short time. I dont know this tactic - i have never try it. But if there is extreme damage, there is somethink too strong and also should be fix.

IIIELEMENTALIST

Without any objections this is the best character in game. This changec become very unpopular but i think very needful.

a Manashield This is very nice spell. Elementalist is very weak character before he reach lvl30 and manashield. But actually what does mana shield do? It divides damage into health and mana pool. Its very good idea and its very good skill. Problem is NOT how dracticaly increses toughness but main problem is elelementalist with mana shield can use health potions but also mana poitions for increase his regen in fight. So he is regenering 2 times faster his "hp" than all other characters with same armor, with best aoe damage in game, with best exping potentiality. I think best way how to fix this large advantage is make handicap - when activated shield: Magic damage decreased (-20%) and armor is decreased (-40%) and also max energy absorption (im not sure but lvl20 80% --> 60%). Also change casting Activate - deactivate status It means no curent cd on spell with duration. Just activate and deactivate button.

b Frost Projectiles another extremly powerful spell. If u make good damaging build, frost projectiles can do more than 300 damage. It not so much, but your casting time is somwhere about 0.3-0.4s and you can cast 7 (8) projectiles in one time. So if u sumarize aoe damage in one second for income elementalist in events. 3 * 7 * 300 = 6300 aoe damage per second. I thought about how to reduces this spell.
  1. First (not recommended) is just decrease max dmg (lvl20 47 ---> 35).
  2. Reduced damage dramatically (lvl20 47---> 20; but allows frostprojectiles hit target multiply each wave- about 1/2 or less of max projectiles it means eg. with 4 projectiles = 2 times or with 7 projectiles = 3 times or max 8 (with artifact bonus) = 4 times)

what this 2 radical changes (a + b2) will brings for elementalist 30+:
  • (1 - 20*0.8/47) = 66% reduction aoe damage for elementalist with mana shield. It sounds awfully. But is it so so awful if you compare events time for shaman (about 8 mins avarage) or for elementalist (about 3 mins avarage). I dont know time for huntress and like better dont talk about rampages 15mins. With multiple hits elementalist will be still the fastest character. But difference will not be so radical.
  • armor reduction by 40% percent with manashield
  • 1v1(single mob, boss, player) damage (0,8*4(or 3)*20/47) = 2-36 % damage increase for single target with Manashield (2 percent for 7 projectiles; 36percent for 8 projectiles) and up to 70,5 percent increse damage on single target without manashield


c IceLighting damage increase a bit

d StoneOfLore increase cooldown (7,5s ---> 45s). But also increase range of effect (for about screen size)

e power starting value (lvl1 1--->5 and change all of skillslvl30 like endurance, dexterity, etc on starting value 5)

IVHUNTRESS
I didnt like this char in any of game. So i will NOT play this char and dont have opportunity to compare. I hope someone else will write some balance issues if they are needed. I only heard about frostspike (skillitem + elementalist awesome ice damage). Also aoe dmg (multi arrow may be balace).I think if there is char which do more than 2-3k dmg a sec (aoe) will have big advantage in exping

VOLD ITEMS
Old items which are up to 30% more powerful and rebalance game. I hope Marlon will find time and determination to change it. Or add new sets of items for lvl 30-35. Which weill have at least similar attributies like old items. Difference old vs new items is too high.
Last edited by unknown54 on 15. Aug 2011, 13:17, edited 19 times in total.
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Re: Characters recommended balance package

Postby pan song » 13. Aug 2011, 13:03

no disrespect here but, i think is fine the way it is :D
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Re: Characters recommended balance package

Postby unknown54 » 13. Aug 2011, 13:09

Its not disrespect. All opnions are important. Nevertheless i do my best to help balance this game. This solution is not for change game, but balance (fix) imba characters. And disallow have one super best character in all game aspects. (like curent ice elementalist). But each character good in any game play - aspect. I know this is unpopular and expect disaccord. Also i dont know if Marlon want this changes. But i have to write about it - there are still unbalance chars.
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Re: Characters recommended balance package

Postby BLooDFReeZiNG » 13. Aug 2011, 13:36

Hi Marlon, and everybody
Elementalist is one of the best balance Class and i will explain my opinion and why i think is it
I think Elementalist are a very balance class for many reasons :

Because Elementalist die easyer than a hunter but Manashield make them descent for pve/pvp
For 20 ABS on Manashield its descent, its a level 30 skill but i just don't undestand when i see Unknow54 (Woodo) Posts i just see someone who trying to make his summuner better and better thats very selfish and this is not a way for balance all characters.
He played with a summuner, and its the only class he will use in end.

BTW now talking about Frosprojectiles you show me your 190 Damage with my Weaken Level 20 and my Stone Of Lore level 18 on bears so with your own skill level 30 you must be to deal 130. Do its awesome ? This is how Frosprojectile is hard to use well
It will say on luzark you must do for less than 90 damage this is normal elementalist are not over powerfull or cheated as you could think.

BTW my damage are much better because i have the perfect stuff / build / stats i have for 180 on Luzark so around 400-450 Damage on Monster -50 Res (Weaken Level 20) and Stone Of Lore Level 18.
My damage are bad on monster with res like Luzark he have 30 res when i decrease his res of 50 and i deal 180 With Weaken and Stone Of Lore of course ;)

Now talking about Stone Of Lore please :D
You said you would like to increase the time of Stone Of Lore ?
This is a really bad idea because it work with Weaken and it should be decrease and not increase for have the same time of Weaken as you know Weaken and Stone Of Lore is a trick it work both now i will say you how hard is Stone Of Lore to xp im abble to say you Stone Of Lore is the HARDEST Skill to xp in the game.
When i had 500 000 Kills On BLooDFReeZiNG my Stone Of Lore was level 18.2 YES ONLY LEVEL 18. I have to mentioned i always use it for try to xp it and for to be abble to make better damage soon
As you know This Skill raise my damage as Weaken

Elementalist is very very very very HARD to make well, but with awesome Items, Build, Stats all is possible for all kind of class and characters.
As you know Elementalist are abble to become better than a Shaman after level 33-36 for PVE but Shaman are the best PVP but for beat the best Characters in Top Rank Like Seyz, BLooDFReeZiNG and Shiver3 you will need unity and Manashield.
Because this is the only way for become the best PVP in all game, this is shaman but still without you are abble to defeat almost everybody :
The best Hunter : Pyderz
The Best Rampagner : Nelha3
But Hunter Huntress are much better than Elementalist in PVE.

But know im abble to think you just did a Elementalist in the only interest to decrease FReeZiNG, twice you said me you would like to be the best and decrease BLooDFReeZiNG
But sorry you are not alone and your request are not justified you can't talk to Elem with your very very very very BAD Elementalist (MagicBABY)
You don't have enought experrience for talk about Elementalist and you will never can talk about them if you have for unique goal to become stronger on Shaman
I did also a Shaman Level 39 (NeCRoTYPHoNiXiS) and i can say they are one the best class ever =)


Now talking about rampagner Stun. You never did a rampagner you are not abble to say what must be balance but yes i have forgot Rampagner is the hardest class in all Forgotten Elements.
Rampagner Stun is really hard to have most of players in game have for less than 10 Pourcent of stun and i know nobody who have better than 20 Pourcent Stun i think it enought balanced and Rampagner should become Better because almost nobody use them.

Then Marlon, and everybody keep all i said in mind. With all i said you can have a better opinion than only Unknow54 Opinion now you have 2 Different Opinion.
Unknow54 (Woodo Shaman who was level 37) Can't talk also of Manashield and stone of lore his skill are level 1
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Re: Characters recommended balance package

Postby unknown54 » 13. Aug 2011, 14:17

thx for idea blood. All opinions are very important (including yours :mrgreen: ). Its called brainstorming in management.

I think in one way, you are right. Hunter and Rampage should be also balanced. This all changes i ve suggested are mainly for make game more difficult for shamans - summoner and elementalist - ice. If he (rampage) is so strong in PvP there is question. Are also so great in incoming and fast exping. I think rampage is definitelly the worst exping char in game 1vM. So another question - should rampage have some advatages like PvP or PvBoss, etc.

And im happy you start again you "policy". This is reason why i think i make good suggestions. BTW: Blood you are the best player here, you are all time playing, so you must be the best BUT (and its very important) its not reason why everythink must be like you said. All will be how admin says. I m novice(compare with you), but i have experiences from beeing member of developer team in some games when i collect and sort suggestion, or proposed sugestions. Its only for clearing im not tomfool who said "now i will change how i want".

SO ... ME OR YOU WILL NOT CHANGE ANYTHINK. ITS ALL ABOUT DEVELOPER OF THIS GAME AND IS VERY PROBABLY HE WILL DISAGREE WITH MANY CHANGES I MENTIONED TOP.

I WILL BE HAPPY IF NOW THERE WILL NOT START DIALOG BETWEEN US, SO IF YOU WANT SAY WE CAN CONTINUE BY PRIVATE MASAGGES (ON THIS TOPIC ...). BALANCE CHANGES ARE RELATING WITH EVERYONE. SO LET SPACE TO ALL PPL PLAYING HERE I WILL NOT ANSWER YOU HERE - ONLY IN PM. MB THERE IS SOMETHINK I DONT SEE, AND SOME IMPORTANT RECOMMENDS TO BE ADD INTO THIS (MY) OR YOUR PACKAGE (if u ever make some).
THANKS.
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Re: Characters recommended balance package

Postby BLooDFReeZiNG » 13. Aug 2011, 14:57

This forum is for share all opinions so your opinion and my opinion must take in consideration
BTW nobody share his idea in the forum its a massive problem and we need really more players
As you know i did video for recrute and it look work well
I think everybody must find a way for recrute as they can

Now for your opinion i try to do nothing just to balance the game as i imagine with the most balance possible with all chars
Elem can get the best lucks /pve
Rampagner the best pvp/boss/worldboss
Shaman PVP / incomer / lucks/pve
Huntress the best pve

i think shaman have enought of good things you said yourself shaman is the best Income and the best PVE
but what i hate with shaman is the passive activity just remember i was also Level 39 in my shaman

and for elementalist i think we are only 2 person in the game (shiver and me) who can really make a good elementalist
Its one the hardest char to do

Shaman is surely the easyest class to do and cant be the best in all
Rampagner should be the best and hunter also they are so hard to make well

BTW elementalist need very very very very much xp for become strong you can see my level 39.7 before the crash

and hey surelly dont need to be decrease all you said because its a bad class you show us how MagivcBABY was bad
=/ :?
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Re: Characters recommended balance package

Postby unknown54 » 13. Aug 2011, 15:14

Okey blood, i just dont wanna silly this topic, which can help game difficulty - especially for 30+. But it doesnt help you, me, and other players playing dual ramp, ice elementalist, shaman - summoner. Curent mb 3 best chars. U know nothink why i posted here. You dont have IQ to understand this if you leave facts and start insulting about my level, etc. We all know u dont like it, same as you dont like other thinks like more ppl want to see you banned than not banned. If you read my calculating i have written top, it increases damage in PvP(or vs single target) by 2-36 percent. So i dont understand why you are so blunt and say somethink about PvP, Lurzak, etc. :roll:

I just dont wanna have this here:
suggestions-f2/new-event-endless-invincibilty-t639-10.html#p3173

Continue in PM, not here in forum, there was a lot of insulting, and result is here. post3476.html#p3476

SO PLEASE LEAVE THIS TOPIC BLOOD AND LET PLACE FOR OTHER PPL
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Re: Characters recommended balance package

Postby Swole » 13. Aug 2011, 17:23

personally i think elementalist needs a nerf.. there is a reason why 90% of the players are now playing elementalist, as for ramp.................................. they need help big time now that aoe classes can gather 100000 mobs at a time to exp in event leveling them is impossible in comparison lol.

but for blood... feel free to watch your 1.5min event clearing before arguing =)

also.. i believe these studies need to be made on characters below level 30, considering the monsters are all level 27
Last edited by Swole on 13. Aug 2011, 17:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Characters recommended balance package

Postby BLooDFReeZiNG » 13. Aug 2011, 17:26

Woodo did the same with his shaman you know ;)
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Re: Characters recommended balance package

Postby unknown54 » 13. Aug 2011, 17:55

yes blood, same i run with my shaman across event than i stopped and i made aoe dmg in lane with razor leaves, which makes about 130dmg with cd about 0.8s. So if i was lucky and hit 10 creatures. My maximal aoe dmg was 130*10/0.8 = 1625. Now i have very very vey bad elementalist and i do 330 dmg with weaken and stone of lore, and my cd is about 0.3-0.4s. So i do with my 7 projectiles 6930 dmg per second. So i want nerfe it. by 67% as u can see top = 2286.

compare after nerfe:

37 top shaman = 1625 dmg vs. low item elementalist 2286dmg

swole: totally agree with you, but i think it will NOT be problem with multiply hits- it will make more damage, and curent frost projectile damage increse hard in last levels. I think it can be same damage to 1-2 target as now and curent maps are not as events. its like lvl 19 = 42 and lvl 20 = 47. So there is place. if it will be increase constantly.
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